I still do go on some of the tiny demos a bit, and I’ve had people say oh what’s the point , there’s only 100 of us turned up and walked through Leeds where as 1 million of us walked through London for Iraq. But the march itself it isn’t the thing that changes it, it’s going on the march that gives you the confidence to do further stuff. And I think that’s really important.

Of the activism I do now is more working within the system to try and change things That’s probably slipping into campaigning at the moment that’s fine for Marching Out Together, because the club is very keen to work with us At the moment we haven’t had to have a demo outside the club because they’re working with us ,and I think it would be interesting if it ever got to that point because most of the people in the group haven’t come from a history of activism, they come from being part of the LGBTQ community and from being football fans so it’s been a different journey for them

So I think it’s quite interesting the line between activism and campaigning. I have always thought you do need to do stuff in your personal life as well as doing stuff in your work life. I know it’s hard to do stuff at work unless it’s via a trade union but I do think where you can you do stuff that pushes and an equality agenda. And keep time in your personal life where you can go a bit further and do stuff which could be controversial

It can be helpful to use a bit of your own personal life within the campaigning but it’s also about remembering it’s not all about you and there is something about the heart of activism and campaigning being for others. even if its others that you’ve got a very close sense of identity with. Thing about activism which is moving beyond "this is just about me."

The things I did like was the phrase" bring your whole self to work." Bring your whole self to work was basically about pushing an equality agenda. If you were working for the council and you were lesbian or disabled or Asian then that would have some relevance to what you’re doing at work. and what can we do with that in a good way, without exploiting it.

People thought it just meant people should not discriminate against you but in my team we thought no let’s celebrate that difference and what can we do with that.

Number of people in my relatively small team who did that job but also did what I call passion projects. Passion projects benefits and health and well-being more than happy to support that.

So their ability to deliver that through bringing the whole selves to work was their experience, as for example a disabled person. or as a lesbian, and I think good working environments nurture that.