I went to university, to Leeds University, when I was in my 30s. Tom had said to me when our youngest child had started school, what do you want to do with your life? Do you want to be a typist or somebody who types up what other people write? Or do you want to do something for yourself? So I went and did a degree in social policy as a mature student.

After many applications, I ended up as a social welfare officer which is an untrained social worker and did that for two years. At that time, Leeds City Council were paying money to train unqualified social workers to qualify, so I did a post graduate at York University and went to work at LGI in the social work department.

It was quite different to how it is now, I think, in that the hospital was an open area, really, people could could just walk into the social work department or walk onto the wards. There was no security. We did have occasions where people who were angry because their children had been removed, walked into the social work department looking for us.

There were a number of times when I had to park the car near the hospital - because it was, well, it's a very emotional thing to have your children removed or to be to be suspected of hurting your children. And when you work in a hospital social work department, you see children who have been shaken badly or actually die in hospital, because they have been - they have had bones broken.

I was asked many times did I have children of my own? Which isn't relevant for them to know, but I can see why they would ask. Because this is people whose children were being removed.

I think some social workers would find it very difficult to work in a hospital with, with children who were harassed or abused if they had young children of their own. Yeah. And I think my children had, were of an age where I couldn't, where I didn't relate it to my own children. So I think that's important. It's very important to have a manager that you could trust and take advice from as well, really. We would talk things through with each other, so we built strong relationships with the team.